I want to make sure that I understand OAS. Because I watched the Original Gangstas of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and especially Uhura in a miniskirt, is that why I feel pain when exposed to the supposedly better Next Gen and all the other clones? If that is so, that would explain why I believe that in a confrontation between Kirk and Picard that Kirk's diplomacy of a phaser and a smirk would blast Picard out of existence. If I have this accurately understood, then it would explain others suffering from the same affliction. http://www.comedycorner.org/12.html
This made my head hurt as well and I have a biology degree with a fair amount of time racked up on immunology. Admittedly from an early internet era...
Questioms, if i may?
How do you account for the real world numbers of cov reinfections tending more prevalent in vaccinated?
Depressed immunity post vaccination leading to lower viral load causing disease?
Poor antibodies leading to ADE or similar?
Small antigen target (s) vs whole virus?
Auto immunity from overstimulation?
Statistical artefact of % vaccinate vs not?
I’m struggling with any other explanations…
It would also seem true that antibody measures of waning immunity are totally useless as a reason to give boosters. At this point that would be obvious, with reliance on B/T cells. Would you agree?
Aside from antibody levels, population cohort studies have shown an obvious trend to waning immunity over time.
Is there anything that could reasonably be done from a biology perspective that would answer the question of COVID evolution, and therefore what would actually constitute sensible policy?
Grateful got the perspective.
For me, it’s starting to look like the removal of OAS as a danger, or impact of constant re priming of the immune system, eg to cause auto immunity, leaves few options on the table, which Is worrying when policy seems to err to the most draconian option….
The linked graphic at the very beginning of the article doesn't work (tried 2 browsers, turned off add blocker, etc.) So it took me a while to figure out what was going on. I enjoyed the Star Trek/video game structure.
"taking up some hypothetically zero-sum memory immunity bandwidth"
I'm glad somebody finally brought this up, because I've been scratching my head over how it may be so. Competition for resources? I'm not a rocket scientist or an immunologist, but it seems unlikely, from what I understand of physiology.
One personal hypothesis that I'm fairly confident about is that applying logic to an imperfectly understood situation doesn't work very well. GIGO.
You may be right that OAS is a myth as originally conceived - some sort of immune defect. But I also keep seeing data suggesting that Omicron preferentially infects vaccinated people.
My best guess is that if an OAS-like phenomenon is real, it is caused primarily by epitope masking by abundant but weakly-binding antibodies. If the antibodies bind more weakly than the receptor target, the antigens will still be able to bind to the target and cause infection, but they will also be effectively "hidden" from the immune system by the attached antibodies, inhibiting the development of strongly-binding variant-specific antibodies.
😄 great post, thank you. I understand oas a little more now, the extra dose of humor and sarcasm is what did it for me.
Mr. Mowrey,
Thank you.
I want to make sure that I understand OAS. Because I watched the Original Gangstas of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and especially Uhura in a miniskirt, is that why I feel pain when exposed to the supposedly better Next Gen and all the other clones? If that is so, that would explain why I believe that in a confrontation between Kirk and Picard that Kirk's diplomacy of a phaser and a smirk would blast Picard out of existence. If I have this accurately understood, then it would explain others suffering from the same affliction. http://www.comedycorner.org/12.html
I find the following explanations bio-logically comprehensible, OAS or not:
https://palexander.substack.com/p/mortal-antigenic-sin-original-antigenic
Will their eyes open?
This made my head hurt as well and I have a biology degree with a fair amount of time racked up on immunology. Admittedly from an early internet era...
Questioms, if i may?
How do you account for the real world numbers of cov reinfections tending more prevalent in vaccinated?
Depressed immunity post vaccination leading to lower viral load causing disease?
Poor antibodies leading to ADE or similar?
Small antigen target (s) vs whole virus?
Auto immunity from overstimulation?
Statistical artefact of % vaccinate vs not?
I’m struggling with any other explanations…
It would also seem true that antibody measures of waning immunity are totally useless as a reason to give boosters. At this point that would be obvious, with reliance on B/T cells. Would you agree?
Aside from antibody levels, population cohort studies have shown an obvious trend to waning immunity over time.
Is there anything that could reasonably be done from a biology perspective that would answer the question of COVID evolution, and therefore what would actually constitute sensible policy?
Grateful got the perspective.
For me, it’s starting to look like the removal of OAS as a danger, or impact of constant re priming of the immune system, eg to cause auto immunity, leaves few options on the table, which Is worrying when policy seems to err to the most draconian option….
So. What do you think?
The linked graphic at the very beginning of the article doesn't work (tried 2 browsers, turned off add blocker, etc.) So it took me a while to figure out what was going on. I enjoyed the Star Trek/video game structure.
"taking up some hypothetically zero-sum memory immunity bandwidth"
I'm glad somebody finally brought this up, because I've been scratching my head over how it may be so. Competition for resources? I'm not a rocket scientist or an immunologist, but it seems unlikely, from what I understand of physiology.
One personal hypothesis that I'm fairly confident about is that applying logic to an imperfectly understood situation doesn't work very well. GIGO.
A famous quote comes to mind, "Show me your graph, and I'll show you another graph."
Damn. I can't recall a more elegant discussion of immunology.
We should all keep in mind that 100% perfect response is not only unlikely, but unnecessary. Good enough is good enough.
This post made my head hurt...
You may be right that OAS is a myth as originally conceived - some sort of immune defect. But I also keep seeing data suggesting that Omicron preferentially infects vaccinated people.
My best guess is that if an OAS-like phenomenon is real, it is caused primarily by epitope masking by abundant but weakly-binding antibodies. If the antibodies bind more weakly than the receptor target, the antigens will still be able to bind to the target and cause infection, but they will also be effectively "hidden" from the immune system by the attached antibodies, inhibiting the development of strongly-binding variant-specific antibodies.