Brian I'm not sure I can agree that this short article proves the claim that I think you're making. The main paper on which you're basing it seems to be the Rose paper which states:
"Hospital-wide antibiotic use was significantly lower during March–October 2020 compared with March–October 2019"
There are other factors to consider
(1) massively reduced community prescribing of respiratory antibiotics (macrolides and cephalosporins) which you can ascertain from openprescribing.net. Prescribing late after an admission for pneumonia, during the phase or organising pneumonia, is a terrible pathway for preventing death from pneumonia
(2) you state that antibiotics - and reinforce this with a leading question - did not reduce deaths from COVID but the Zelenko, Kory and Tyson protocols and cohorts had death rates 10-20x lower than other community rates - using antibiotics.
(3) Crytogenic organising pneumonia is treated by steroids after treatment with antibiotics and exclusion of known causes of pneumonia. There has been to date no differentiation proven between COP and covid "pneumonia". If you don't have a known cause of the pneumonia (which was the case because "COVID" was an unknown entity), assuming there is no bacterial (or atypical bacterial) cause of that pneumonia - when this is one of only two valid treatment pathways (the other being steroids) is dangerous.
(4) It is unlikely that this syndrome was caused by a synthetic virus alone, and quite possible that there was a vector involved such as mycoplasma or coxiella. Without excluding these vectors it is narrow minded to purposefully withhold antibiotics.
Coming down with Delta in Sept 21 I sent a message to my pretty tired primary care doc through the portal. I reported positive test and coughing up yellow stuff. She called that evening in urging me to go to the ER. I asked her if she'd prescribe azithromycin, one course. She did that. I yessed her the phone about going to the ER and then stayed home, took the Zpak and after a day yellow crud gone. I'm guessing the bacterial infection set in fast? But the Zpak took care of it, fast.
38% of Covid patients weren't given antibiotics on admission, but 77% ended up getting antibiotics during their stay (23% didn't). So one could look at this and say not enough got antibiotics, and others say too many got them because there were only 8% with bacterial infections
Regardless, was the usage beneficial? Without a control group we can't say. It seems likely those who had the fewest symptoms got less antibiotics so there is healthy user bias here.
Then one can ask if the use of antibiotics were optimum. Did they use the right antibiotics. Azithromycin inhibits protein translation in ribosome of both virus and cytokine proteins, and is believed to reduce inflammation as well. . Some clinicians swear by it yet less than 1/2 of the patients getting antibiotics got Azithromycin.
There seems yo be an agenda by NIH to get Doctors to use less antibiotics so many studies seem designed to show this given most funding comes from these agencies.
With COVID its unlikely anyone one drug is a miracle drug, but in combination in appropriate dose, early use, etc it seems COVID is a treatable disease in all but the most vulnerable (very old, very sick people).
You have done some of the most down-in-the-weeds work — and made it ACCESSIBLE to those of us moderately conversant in science-speak — that I have ever found. Thank you. Well deserved subscription tendered.
Feb 9, 2023·edited Feb 9, 2023Liked by Brian Mowrey
This mouse has shown many older people died because they did not receive antimicrobials - looks like the care / nursing homes did differently to hospitals?
I've flagged it for future reading / analysis, so cannot add more, but thought given the topic of this post it may prove of some value? https://twitter.com/TheJikky/status/1604543666135367680 - along the lines of what Heather Candy mentions in a comment below.
Hmmm, the acellular Pertussis vaccine seems like it might be in the same class as the Covid-19 vaccines in that it seems to suppress symptoms among those who have had it. Mentioned in this podcast towards the end:
I think some of questions circulating about antibiotic use relates to non hospital patients, yes, but the other group is senior citizens - those in nursing homes. There were issues is the UK (as there were before Covid - look up Liverpool pathway), but also in Canada, where I live. In early Covid days, everything was about "spare the hospitals", so seniors home residents were *not* sent to hospital when they had Covid symptoms, and *were* palliated (ie given morphine, midazolam, etc.) to death. It was easily done in nursing homes here, as DNR status is discussed on admission to nursing homes & the vast majority of patients are DNR. *But* that never should mean don't try to treat something treatable. There was a gov't inquiry in my province about the deaths in nursing homes, either late in 2020 or some time in 2021) (It would take a bit of effort for me to find. I seem to be quite good at finding & downloading studies on-line, but not so great at organizing them so I can find them again 😬) BTW, I am a now retired (late 2021) registered nurse in Ontario, Canada.
I think much of the discussion on secondary bacterial infection misses out on the microbiome, which is a recent field. There was even an article I cited published around 2016 about the microbiome where the authors were discussing the consensus was that the lungs were sterile. It'd be interesting to see how much reworking of different ideas will come about due to the microbiome.
The first detected case of Covid19 who arrived in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia from Wuhan was given Antibiotics that were judged to have no effect on his condition.
Wasn't Azithromycin given to Covid Patients? I thought it was, along with Dexamethasone? It's an antibiotic, but apparently it reduces inflammation in some manner. Am I incorrect?
I've seen the accusations of no antibiotics being given (it seems to be an accusation made especially in England). We gave antibiotics at my hospital in the USA. Maybe the issue was less antibiotics generally being given outpatient before severity warranted inpatient treatment.
One data point: I was hospitalized Jan 2022 (unjabb'd senior) with Covid, fever, CT-scan diagnosed ground glass opacity bilateral pneumonia, cough, vertigo, SVT, elevated D-dimer, etc. The only treatments I received over 5 days were: blood thinner injection (stomach) and - wait for it - MUCINEX. Fortunately my SpO2 was 93 the whole time so I was not given O2.
Brian I'm not sure I can agree that this short article proves the claim that I think you're making. The main paper on which you're basing it seems to be the Rose paper which states:
"Hospital-wide antibiotic use was significantly lower during March–October 2020 compared with March–October 2019"
There are other factors to consider
(1) massively reduced community prescribing of respiratory antibiotics (macrolides and cephalosporins) which you can ascertain from openprescribing.net. Prescribing late after an admission for pneumonia, during the phase or organising pneumonia, is a terrible pathway for preventing death from pneumonia
(2) you state that antibiotics - and reinforce this with a leading question - did not reduce deaths from COVID but the Zelenko, Kory and Tyson protocols and cohorts had death rates 10-20x lower than other community rates - using antibiotics.
(3) Crytogenic organising pneumonia is treated by steroids after treatment with antibiotics and exclusion of known causes of pneumonia. There has been to date no differentiation proven between COP and covid "pneumonia". If you don't have a known cause of the pneumonia (which was the case because "COVID" was an unknown entity), assuming there is no bacterial (or atypical bacterial) cause of that pneumonia - when this is one of only two valid treatment pathways (the other being steroids) is dangerous.
(4) It is unlikely that this syndrome was caused by a synthetic virus alone, and quite possible that there was a vector involved such as mycoplasma or coxiella. Without excluding these vectors it is narrow minded to purposefully withhold antibiotics.
Thanks
Coming down with Delta in Sept 21 I sent a message to my pretty tired primary care doc through the portal. I reported positive test and coughing up yellow stuff. She called that evening in urging me to go to the ER. I asked her if she'd prescribe azithromycin, one course. She did that. I yessed her the phone about going to the ER and then stayed home, took the Zpak and after a day yellow crud gone. I'm guessing the bacterial infection set in fast? But the Zpak took care of it, fast.
38% of Covid patients weren't given antibiotics on admission, but 77% ended up getting antibiotics during their stay (23% didn't). So one could look at this and say not enough got antibiotics, and others say too many got them because there were only 8% with bacterial infections
Regardless, was the usage beneficial? Without a control group we can't say. It seems likely those who had the fewest symptoms got less antibiotics so there is healthy user bias here.
Then one can ask if the use of antibiotics were optimum. Did they use the right antibiotics. Azithromycin inhibits protein translation in ribosome of both virus and cytokine proteins, and is believed to reduce inflammation as well. . Some clinicians swear by it yet less than 1/2 of the patients getting antibiotics got Azithromycin.
There seems yo be an agenda by NIH to get Doctors to use less antibiotics so many studies seem designed to show this given most funding comes from these agencies.
With COVID its unlikely anyone one drug is a miracle drug, but in combination in appropriate dose, early use, etc it seems COVID is a treatable disease in all but the most vulnerable (very old, very sick people).
You have done some of the most down-in-the-weeds work — and made it ACCESSIBLE to those of us moderately conversant in science-speak — that I have ever found. Thank you. Well deserved subscription tendered.
This mouse has shown many older people died because they did not receive antimicrobials - looks like the care / nursing homes did differently to hospitals?
I've flagged it for future reading / analysis, so cannot add more, but thought given the topic of this post it may prove of some value? https://twitter.com/TheJikky/status/1604543666135367680 - along the lines of what Heather Candy mentions in a comment below.
Hmmm, the acellular Pertussis vaccine seems like it might be in the same class as the Covid-19 vaccines in that it seems to suppress symptoms among those who have had it. Mentioned in this podcast towards the end:
https://www.unz.com/audio/kbarrett_zoey-otoole-of-childrens-health-defense-on-turtles-all-the-way-down/
So, is that possibly another example of IgG class switching to tolerance antibodies.
To what extent did telling people to stay home help to depress serum D3 levels further?
I suspect perhaps it didn't have much impact because most old people don't get out a lot anyway.
I think some of questions circulating about antibiotic use relates to non hospital patients, yes, but the other group is senior citizens - those in nursing homes. There were issues is the UK (as there were before Covid - look up Liverpool pathway), but also in Canada, where I live. In early Covid days, everything was about "spare the hospitals", so seniors home residents were *not* sent to hospital when they had Covid symptoms, and *were* palliated (ie given morphine, midazolam, etc.) to death. It was easily done in nursing homes here, as DNR status is discussed on admission to nursing homes & the vast majority of patients are DNR. *But* that never should mean don't try to treat something treatable. There was a gov't inquiry in my province about the deaths in nursing homes, either late in 2020 or some time in 2021) (It would take a bit of effort for me to find. I seem to be quite good at finding & downloading studies on-line, but not so great at organizing them so I can find them again 😬) BTW, I am a now retired (late 2021) registered nurse in Ontario, Canada.
Thanks for the shoutout!
I think much of the discussion on secondary bacterial infection misses out on the microbiome, which is a recent field. There was even an article I cited published around 2016 about the microbiome where the authors were discussing the consensus was that the lungs were sterile. It'd be interesting to see how much reworking of different ideas will come about due to the microbiome.
Throwing together some pictures on Syncytia deliberately caused by US Bioweapons maniacs.
https://geoffpain.substack.com/p/pneumonia-caused-by-wuhan-covid19
The first detected case of Covid19 who arrived in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia from Wuhan was given Antibiotics that were judged to have no effect on his condition.
https://geoffpain.substack.com/p/first-detected-covid19-case-arrived
Wasn't Azithromycin given to Covid Patients? I thought it was, along with Dexamethasone? It's an antibiotic, but apparently it reduces inflammation in some manner. Am I incorrect?
How effective are antibiotics if the patient is continuously exposed to the infecting bacteria?
I've seen the accusations of no antibiotics being given (it seems to be an accusation made especially in England). We gave antibiotics at my hospital in the USA. Maybe the issue was less antibiotics generally being given outpatient before severity warranted inpatient treatment.
One data point: I was hospitalized Jan 2022 (unjabb'd senior) with Covid, fever, CT-scan diagnosed ground glass opacity bilateral pneumonia, cough, vertigo, SVT, elevated D-dimer, etc. The only treatments I received over 5 days were: blood thinner injection (stomach) and - wait for it - MUCINEX. Fortunately my SpO2 was 93 the whole time so I was not given O2.
Syncytia > Pneumonia > Death