This is like being a fly on the wall in a place where the REAL science is taking place. I can't contribute a lot to the discussion but am very grateful to all of you.
This is a great series, thanks for putting it together.
Your explanation of part of the viral replication process was really helpful to me.
Does the polyprotein contain a bunch of pieces and tools that, once separated assemble into a virion?
It occurs to me that, in individuals vaccinated against spike only, flagging the cell as "sick" via MHC would probably need to find bits of spike to present. But, perhaps the spike proteins are still tied up inside the polyprotein when the protease inhibitors are active. Thus, nothing is gained from the Paxlovid "pause" because the infected cells aren't being flagged and destroyed.
This could be different in a natural infection, if the whole virus is taken apart and antibodies evolved for many different pieces. In computer terminology, you could "execute" the viral RNA in a sandbox to find out what proteins are created and prepare to recognize them; point being this produces a lot more ways to identify an infection, including precursors and byproducts (e.g. nsp5), rather than just relying on "finished" spike only.
I have to feel that the long term consequences of your body making a toxic spike protein and then presenting alongside other proteins (natural) will lead to de-immunization because the body would eventually start viewing spike as "self". This is basically immune tolerance in a nutshell.
Its unclear to me whether this is an effect of Paxlovid - or the mRNA vaccines.
Apr 24, 2022·edited Apr 24, 2022Liked by Brian Mowrey
Well, just like you now I'm starting to consider how it may be pretty obvious. I stated that we may not have used protease inhibitors alone to treat viral infections. For HIV a cocktail usually entails a nucleoside analogue, integrase inhibitor, protease inhibitor, essentially it is a full cocktail of drugs which are intended to target many facets of the virus. It would make sense that the virus may have a few built-in workarounds to go against clogged channels.
But you've spent a lot of time digging deep and piecing things together and it really shows that you don't need to be some PhD as long as you are a critical thinker, and it clearly shows in this case Brian.
I guess we still need to wonder how long the immune dysfunction is, but I am unsure to what extent that is occurring. Ironically, I saw that The Naked Emperor's Newsletter posted an article in which they believe that long COVID may partially be blamed on reduce immune function. Considering that some of the symptoms of vaccine side effects are similar to that of Long COVID I'm actually curious if there are concerns over immune dysfunction. There's also consideration into whether the host cells can recognize uncleaved proteins and target them for removal, but I suppose that would require even further investigation.
Edit: this was the article that The Naked Emperor posted:
Apr 24, 2022·edited Apr 24, 2022Liked by Brian Mowrey
Brian, I greatly appreciate you digging so deeply into this topic.
Paxlovid was tested on on unvaccinated people only. Now they are giving it to vaxxed people, whose reaction to it, and timeline of development of immune response, is very possibly different from unvaxed.
As your graph shows, paxlovid failed even in some unvaxed people , but seems to be failing much more often (this is just a hunch) in real mostly vaccinated people.
This could be a story not just of Paxlovid failure. This could be a story illustrating vaccine failure of not allowing vaccinated people mount rapid (within 5 days) immune response.
It could also be a story of Omicron not clearing as quickly as Alpha/Delta.
Washington Post just published an article about the viral rebound effect with people getting sick from the same infection again (not a reinfection) - https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/04/27/paxlovid-second-case-covid/
This is like being a fly on the wall in a place where the REAL science is taking place. I can't contribute a lot to the discussion but am very grateful to all of you.
This is a great series, thanks for putting it together.
Your explanation of part of the viral replication process was really helpful to me.
Does the polyprotein contain a bunch of pieces and tools that, once separated assemble into a virion?
It occurs to me that, in individuals vaccinated against spike only, flagging the cell as "sick" via MHC would probably need to find bits of spike to present. But, perhaps the spike proteins are still tied up inside the polyprotein when the protease inhibitors are active. Thus, nothing is gained from the Paxlovid "pause" because the infected cells aren't being flagged and destroyed.
This could be different in a natural infection, if the whole virus is taken apart and antibodies evolved for many different pieces. In computer terminology, you could "execute" the viral RNA in a sandbox to find out what proteins are created and prepare to recognize them; point being this produces a lot more ways to identify an infection, including precursors and byproducts (e.g. nsp5), rather than just relying on "finished" spike only.
I have to feel that the long term consequences of your body making a toxic spike protein and then presenting alongside other proteins (natural) will lead to de-immunization because the body would eventually start viewing spike as "self". This is basically immune tolerance in a nutshell.
Its unclear to me whether this is an effect of Paxlovid - or the mRNA vaccines.
Well, just like you now I'm starting to consider how it may be pretty obvious. I stated that we may not have used protease inhibitors alone to treat viral infections. For HIV a cocktail usually entails a nucleoside analogue, integrase inhibitor, protease inhibitor, essentially it is a full cocktail of drugs which are intended to target many facets of the virus. It would make sense that the virus may have a few built-in workarounds to go against clogged channels.
But you've spent a lot of time digging deep and piecing things together and it really shows that you don't need to be some PhD as long as you are a critical thinker, and it clearly shows in this case Brian.
I guess we still need to wonder how long the immune dysfunction is, but I am unsure to what extent that is occurring. Ironically, I saw that The Naked Emperor's Newsletter posted an article in which they believe that long COVID may partially be blamed on reduce immune function. Considering that some of the symptoms of vaccine side effects are similar to that of Long COVID I'm actually curious if there are concerns over immune dysfunction. There's also consideration into whether the host cells can recognize uncleaved proteins and target them for removal, but I suppose that would require even further investigation.
Edit: this was the article that The Naked Emperor posted:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-04-cases-covid-abnormally-suppressed-immune.html
Brian, I greatly appreciate you digging so deeply into this topic.
Paxlovid was tested on on unvaccinated people only. Now they are giving it to vaxxed people, whose reaction to it, and timeline of development of immune response, is very possibly different from unvaxed.
As your graph shows, paxlovid failed even in some unvaxed people , but seems to be failing much more often (this is just a hunch) in real mostly vaccinated people.
This could be a story not just of Paxlovid failure. This could be a story illustrating vaccine failure of not allowing vaccinated people mount rapid (within 5 days) immune response.
It could also be a story of Omicron not clearing as quickly as Alpha/Delta.
We should keep pushing it.
I tweeted your article from my backup account
https://twitter.com/TotallyCanc3l3d/status/1518046417461424129