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Modern Discontent's avatar

I've seen a few other people covering this, and so I finally decided to look at the paper. Just as you stated, it seems entirely confusing how they got their results.

For instance, when considering VAP did they differentiate pneumonia from SARS-COV2 vs VAP? The methods suggest that at least 48 hours on a ventilator with bacterial culturing were used to suggest a VAP episode:

". By definition, VAP was considered to be an incident pneumonia that was diagnosed by a BAL performed after at least 48 hours of mechanical ventilation (39); only VAP episodes that were adjudicated to be due to bacteria were included in the analysis. "

They don't provide any evidence of what bacteria they cultured, and the study does not appear to use SARS-COV2 ICU patients without ventilation as a frame of reference (the 190 included appeared to have had SARS-COV2-related pneumonia, although one can argue that the design of SCRIPT would inherently focus only on pneumonia so this group should be assumed to not be included).

So I'm struggling to see how they were able to fully differentiate SARS-COV2 pneumonia from VAP, but I suppose that's an issue with any VAP study. They also don't indicate specific timepoints for when BAL samples were collected, just stating they did "serial collection".

I tried skimming through the supplemental section but it doesn't seem to indicate the number of BAL samples collected. This sentence in the methods makes it seem as if they only collected samples at the time of a suspected episode of pneumonia, but does that mean they continued to take samples throughout the course of the infection:

"ICU physicians at NMH routinely obtain bronchoscopic or non-bronchoscopic BAL samples

from mechanically ventilated patients whenever pneumonia is suspected (47)."

Given that all of the correlations made by their software are dependent upon the data they provide it, I would assume that there's an inherent bias in these results that should be taken into great account.

I think the last thing I noticed so far is that they never mentioned anything related to actual quantitation of cytokine profiles. Their limitations actually mentions that they did not quantitate any inflammatory biomarkers, but rather it appears that they are making assumptions about a "cytokine storm" with respect to the transitions into worse groups. This would seem like a non-answer for anything for or against the cytokine storm argument. It just looks like they didn't take any approach at all and are just making qualitative assumptions.

I haven't spent more time with this paper but it seems like so much was left up to how the AI interpreted the results that I can't help but consider this a fishing expedition.

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