Third post-Omicron infection study A third study looking at B Cells 6 months after “breakthrough” Omicron (BA.1) infections has been added to the previous post. It resoundingly affirms the results of the other two: *Update, February 2, 2023: A third paper has now been uploaded to preprint affirming the same result:
Feb 4, 2023·edited Feb 4, 2023Liked by Brian Mowrey
We've talked about this before, but this new imprint study does raise the question again why a previous vaccinated individual can produce new B-cells for the nucleus, but not unseen/changed parts of the spike protein.
One important aspect is that N-antibodies typically arrive only after one has cleared the infection. I mentioned this, as what was also left open is the question whether this reshuffle of existing B-cells only occurs if any older antibodies exist. As you have mentioned yourself 'AOS' is not a 'sin' as the old antibodies work fine. So there is also no need to create new ones.
But that would not mean, that if ever a new variant arrives in which the old types are all not effective, the body would not be able to create new B-cells. After all, that would result in large amounts of IgM's for proteins not seen before.
In fact we kind of know for sure that is the case. After all, what has been forgotten from the very early days of covid, is the research in how existing common cold immunity applied to covid. What was seen, is that we humans respond initially by producing large amounts of common cold antibodies, which are mostly non-effective (*). Still we all adapted back then, proving OAS wrong, as peopel infected then created Wuhan1 antibodies.
My guess is that the biochemical feedbacks causing a reshuffle vs produce new B-cells, only react this way when some effective response is mounted. But even then, the N-antibodies prove the body can learn and hence there must be a second factor at play here. I suggested that the changed spike sections may be too small or physically too close on the spikes to produce enough unique IgM's. Or other chemicals part of teh immune response interact here. (**). But I'm just speculating. It would hence be good to see, if truly no new B-cells are created for BA.1 unique proteins, even after a few months. We know also from early 2020 some people produce no antibodies at all, but did produce memory cells after beating covid.
*) There is one against the S2 protein that is, but only a minority of humans produces that. 2-4% in US/France, 10-15% in two African countries. But that is an interesting side issue.
**) The role of CD8 T+ cells is also interesting. Most of them are N-triggered, not spike triggered and may behave different, both in context of repeated infections as well as continuous boosting. This indicates separate learning mechanisms.
Rather disappointed in Kirsch. He has a good head for business and PR type things but no head for sussing out the truth as far as I can tell.
I'm just skeptical that any count of who died and when will ever produce a meaningful signal. What has to happen is looking at actual people or corpses and finding out what happened. Bob died on Tuesday will never be a strong argument for what killed Bob.
Feb 2, 2023·edited Feb 2, 2023Liked by Brian Mowrey
I'd say Steve's proof has failed to survive review by peers ...
And I can't make head or tail out of his new computation - it would be good if he provided an XLS worksheet or working code to download instead of some arbitrary "hand-waving" description in English :)
We've talked about this before, but this new imprint study does raise the question again why a previous vaccinated individual can produce new B-cells for the nucleus, but not unseen/changed parts of the spike protein.
One important aspect is that N-antibodies typically arrive only after one has cleared the infection. I mentioned this, as what was also left open is the question whether this reshuffle of existing B-cells only occurs if any older antibodies exist. As you have mentioned yourself 'AOS' is not a 'sin' as the old antibodies work fine. So there is also no need to create new ones.
But that would not mean, that if ever a new variant arrives in which the old types are all not effective, the body would not be able to create new B-cells. After all, that would result in large amounts of IgM's for proteins not seen before.
In fact we kind of know for sure that is the case. After all, what has been forgotten from the very early days of covid, is the research in how existing common cold immunity applied to covid. What was seen, is that we humans respond initially by producing large amounts of common cold antibodies, which are mostly non-effective (*). Still we all adapted back then, proving OAS wrong, as peopel infected then created Wuhan1 antibodies.
My guess is that the biochemical feedbacks causing a reshuffle vs produce new B-cells, only react this way when some effective response is mounted. But even then, the N-antibodies prove the body can learn and hence there must be a second factor at play here. I suggested that the changed spike sections may be too small or physically too close on the spikes to produce enough unique IgM's. Or other chemicals part of teh immune response interact here. (**). But I'm just speculating. It would hence be good to see, if truly no new B-cells are created for BA.1 unique proteins, even after a few months. We know also from early 2020 some people produce no antibodies at all, but did produce memory cells after beating covid.
*) There is one against the S2 protein that is, but only a minority of humans produces that. 2-4% in US/France, 10-15% in two African countries. But that is an interesting side issue.
**) The role of CD8 T+ cells is also interesting. Most of them are N-triggered, not spike triggered and may behave different, both in context of repeated infections as well as continuous boosting. This indicates separate learning mechanisms.
==> The mRNA-vaccinated appear to be stuck with their original B Cell pool forever. But it’s ok.
Is that kind of, sort of like original antigenic sin?
Rather disappointed in Kirsch. He has a good head for business and PR type things but no head for sussing out the truth as far as I can tell.
I'm just skeptical that any count of who died and when will ever produce a meaningful signal. What has to happen is looking at actual people or corpses and finding out what happened. Bob died on Tuesday will never be a strong argument for what killed Bob.
Off-topic:
Jonathan Couey is underwhelmed with Brian Mowrey's attitude and wants a parlay on his twitch show.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1727033554
cue: 00:06:15 -> 00:17:10
Note: This commenter likes to watch scientists arguing as if they were scientists.
Best things I've read this week:
https://live2fightanotherday.substack.com/p/japan-jabbination-progress
https://live2fightanotherday.substack.com/p/disappearing-benefits-of-covid-countermeasures
Comments fixed back to everyone. Stupid substack defaults
I'd say Steve's proof has failed to survive review by peers ...
And I can't make head or tail out of his new computation - it would be good if he provided an XLS worksheet or working code to download instead of some arbitrary "hand-waving" description in English :)